Sunday, April 5, 2020

The METAL MIKE SAUNDERS Interview [1978]

Text by Gary Sperrazza! / Big Star fanzine, 1978
Introduction by Bernie Kugel / Big Star fanzine, 1978
Introduction © Robert Barry Francos / FFanzeen, 2020
Images from the Internet

This interview was originally published in Big Star fanzine, issue #3, dated Spring 1978. It was written by Gary Sperrazza!, who passed away in 2016 (but his exclamation point lives on). Thanks to Bernie Kugel, the fanzine’s publisher, who kindly granted permission for this reprint.

Metal Mike Saunders is a name that was a much larger known West Coast punk personality than in the East, but he had quite an influence through his early punk rock journalism at both national and fanzine levels, and later with hardcore bands like VOM, and especially the Angry Samoans (who have been touring again in the last couple of years). However, his biggest claim to fame that no one seems to remember is that he is credited with coining the phrase “Heavy Metal.” – RBF, 2020

* * *
In the early ‘70s, Mike Saunders was one of the leading and best writers around, especially when he was writing about the topics most near and dear to him: heavy metal and punk rock of the ‘60s, in such diverse publications as Flash magazine, Phonograph Record Magazine and Buffalo’s own lamented Shakin’ Street Gazette. He also was partly responsible for the legendary Brain Damage mag, the great one-shot parody of the big fanzines a few years back. He was also one of the guys initially responsible for the quickly-becoming-legendary West Coast rock critic punk band, VOM, even though he seems to have stepped back from taking a major role in the band, preferring to just “churn out heavy metal riffs.” Some of the classics he’s written over the years includes such underground hits as “Got a Dagger for You Jagger,” “Just Killed My Dad,” “Getting High with Stephen Stills,” “Gary Gilmore is my Friend,” and many others which will hopefully find their way to vinyl in one form or another, eventually.

Lester Bangs [d. 1982 – RBF] recently told me that Metal Mike was truly “ahead of his time.” So to satisfy the needs of all the Metal Mike fans across the globe, we present this little interview recently done by Big Star West Coast Editor, Gary Sperrazza! – BK, 1978

* * *
Big Star: What have you been doing lately?
Metal Mike Saunders: Well, from 1973 through mid-’75, I worked a 9-to-5 office job here in LA that truly inspired me to go back to Arkansas and get a second college (degree) so I could become an accountant. I saved a lot of money those two years. A lot for what I was making, but… so now I’ve got the degree, got suits in the closet, my hair is cut short, (and) I’m hunting for that first accounting job. I guess my goal is to have $100,000 in the bank at the age of 35. That’s really sick, you know! But accounting is a vehicle through which to achieve that goal, and it’s (a) great profession, besides. Do you really think anyone cares about this trivia, outside of my mother?

Big Star: Not really.
Metal Mike: So let’s talk about something interesting. How about the Dodgers?

Big Star: What about ‘em?
Metal Mike: Well, what it amounts to is that in this town (Los Angeles), the Dodgers are bigger than rock’n’roll, TV, and movies all combined. They’ve run these surveys showing that 71.7% of all males (females, 54%) over 18 listen to the Dodgers games on the radio or TV. And the team is amazing anyway… manager Tommy Lasorda is a bona fide future legend in the making. What it amounts to is that in LA, the Dodgers kill any current rock’n’roll phenomena with the possible exception of KISS.

Big Star: KISS???
Metal Mike: Yeah, I think they’re the ‘70s Beach Boys. The best American rock group, hands down. I love their records.

Big Star: Care to elaborate on that assertion?
Metal Mike: No, not really. KISS are just the commercialization of heavy metal that I was really waiting years for. Plus, they got the most and best riffs of any band around. Like, “I Stole Your Love,” man – any of you MC5 fans who can’t get into that, I’m having your record collections repossessed tomorrow! Or “Love Gun,” to stay current – that’s as good a 45 as anything.

Big Star: Anything else you like in the current rock scene?
Metal Mike: ABBA are really, really great; they’re the only other group whose albums I’d pay four bucks for. Aerosmith are OK, Rush and Starz ditto, Ted Nugent, eh… I really liked all those rock’n’roll Top 40 singles from the past year: Boston, Foghat, KISS, Steve Miller, ELO, the Bay City Rollers’ rock’n’roll singles; paid 99 cents at K-Mart for all those groups’ 45s. Basically, I’m just a heavy metal purist. AM radio finally caught up with heavy metal guitar via Boston – so my taste now is really mainstream. Don’t ask me about New Wave, I hate that stuff. “God Save the Queen” was a great record, both sides, but otherwise… Limeys can’t do anything right, y’know. The Ramones albums literally make me ill. Their 45s are neat though – I bought “Sheena is a Punk Rocker.”

Big Star: Any other hobbies or fandoms you like better than rock’n’roll?
Metal Mike: Oh, yeah, I’ve been back into wargaming since 1975. It’s a great hobby… a couple nights a month, anyway. Baseball is really the king, though.

Big Star: Tell us about R. Meltzer and VOM.
Metal Mike: Gregg Turner came by one day and mentioned that Meltzer wanted to do a group; he was really serious about forming a band. So I said, “Okay,” and the next time I plugged in the fuzzbox to write some metallic riffs, I did a song tailored to Meltzer’s voice, “Getting High with Stephen Stills.” Then a couple days later Turner came by with a lyric he had called “Too Animalistic,” and I wrote some Fred Smith/Wayne Kramer riffs for it, and it was obviously a VOM song! So it all took off, and the concept of VOM has been expanding ever since.

Big Star: Which is?
Metal Mike: Sort of a cross between heavy metal Fugs and the first Stooges album.

Big Star: Who’s gonna be in the band?
Metal Mike: Three friends of Meltzer’s on guitars and bass who’ve knocked around in bands, we’re auditioning drummer, myself on anything from guitar to drums to vocals, plus Meltzer and Turner handing a plurality of the vocals. So things as of this date (10/77) are in that embryonic stage of finding the right musicians, then rehearsing for a couple months.

Big Star: So what’s the musical genre?
Metal Mike: Various levels of heavy metal, because that’s all I write – Black Sabbath/Stooges, mutated ’66 metal, or whatever level of tightness is attained, but with Meltzeroid lyrics and stage presentation. Heavy metal Fugs is really a good description. Unless it’s both stupid… and funny... then we’re not gonna do it.

Big Star: You have a really big backlog of songs of your own, don’t you?
Metal Mike: Oh, yeah, around 300-350 from over the past eight years. I love making up riffs; it’s like working algebra problems. Quick and easy, (in) 10 minutes ya got it, another song. It’s like permutations – 10 different basic chord changes in 10 different sequences, 10 different tempos. 10 x 10 x 10… a thousand songs. You’ve just got to know the basic riffs really well, like very good punk rock or heavy metal record ever made. I think Paul Stanley of KISS is really one of the best riff-mongers ever; his output is just great.

Big Star: What’s your personal experience in rock bands?
Metal Mike: The mid- and late-‘60s, as a drummer and guitarist in a lot of garage bands back in Little Rock, Arkansas; some real megatonic heavyweights like the Rockin’ Blewz, the Living Endz, Society’s Outcasts, among others… A Standells member I wasn’t – by the end of high school I was a real basket case stage-wise… a walking time bomb capable of blowing a chord change at the worst possible moment. Like the chorus of “Talk Talk”… or the intro to “Louie Louie.” My position with VOM as musical director/dictator and utility infielder is really ideal… I only have to play on the songs I know I’m not gonna blow. All three of them…

Big Star: Back to rock writing –
Metal Mike: Rock what?

Big Star: Rock writing; magazines…
Metal Mike: Boy, ya got me. It was just something I did in lieu of working at McDonald’s during my college years, you know.

Big Star: Any writers you like?
Metal Mike: Oh, yeah. Nick Kent of NME was amazing during his hot period. Charles Shaar Murray is amazing. Max Bell also of NME has done real well at times. Over in this country you had or have Lester Bangs. All the rest of us turkeys were a good six notches below Bangs and those first two, I think you’ll agree. Like, I mean, Lenny Kaye for example had a couple great moments, but… Like Circus is really the best commercial American pro-zine at this point – don’t you think that kinda says it all?

Big Star: Compared to NME, yes. Any comments on Mark Shipper, Flash, or your Brain Damage fanzine from 1974?
Metal Mike: No, not really. At this late date it’s just all water under the cesspool… Let bygones be bygones. Who cares, y’know?? I’m still gonna let the air out of Shipper’s tires someday, though!

Angry Samoans: Metal Mike on far left
Big Star: Anything else about VOM?
Metal Mike: Yeah. At the first VOM business meeting, Meltzer was really drunk, knocking over things. We got into an argument on how you write songs, me being used to patching lyrics onto riffs I make up, and then he called me a folkie. I really wanted to deck him. But I calmed down… so Turner and I went into his brother’s bedroom, locked the door, and plugged in the guitar and took a couple of Meltzer’s finished lyrics, “Electrocute Your Cock” and “I’m in Love with Your Mom,” and I made up riffs for them. Good ones, right on the spot. So when we came back out in half an hour with finished songs, Richard saw we weren’t kidding about being just what he needed musically…. He’s going, “Hey, Blue Oyster Cult takes six months to write a riff… this is all right!” And it’s been easy working with him ever since; we write together when we can in the same genre, lyric-wise, so it’s a real songwriting mill. All that Meltzer needs is someone to crank out the music; he’s got the best lyrics around. “I Live with the Roaches” is hilarious – I can’t believe BOC [Blue Oyster Cult – RBF, 2020] wimped out on recording that! All that has to happen is for the group to attain a reasonable level of competence and keep up with the quality of material that’s gonna be coming out.

Big Star: How about records?
Metal Mike: Aw, that’s the best part… for records, we’re gonna bring in Ross Friedman [Ross the Boss, at the time in the Dictators,– RBF, 2020], that kind of thing. They’ll be real heavy metal 45s. I’m the musical Dictator of Vinyl – so they have to be, or they won’t happen. Back Door Man Records will have their first big chance to break the 1,000 sales mark… maybe even 2,000!

Big Star: Sounds Interesting.
Metal Mike: Well, y’know… heavy metal Fugs… I guess it beats watching the San Diego Padres on TV… unless they happen to be playing the Dodgers, that is.


  1. Why am I not surprised to learn he was a wargamer? The most intense type of nerd there ever was. Cool interview.

  2. Fascinating! A pre-Samoans interview with my brother going over mission planning for VOM and referring to Mike's classic exploit in "Critical Theory" haha and meta-critique aptly labelled

    BRAIN DAMAGE #1 - "It's Not Coming Back!"

    Thar she blows, in glorious black and white, courtesy of href="http="">BAD TRIP RECORDS!

    - Rosie-Anne Quvus aka bonze blayk!
    -- Recording Secretary, DATABEAST INC / BAD TRIP RECORDS
    ------ WARGAMER ------
    --- & Lifetime Champion over The Metalman in PanzerArmee Afrika! ---

  3. "i HATE New Wave..."
    "the Ramones albums literally make me ill..."
    at xmas season '77 in that there repro, this guy mike has definitely got his hands on the PULSE of something... oh wait. HE IS "THE VALLEY" to the max. the manly assertiveness, the vibe the skewered sense of time and space and roadmap relativity -- "man, it's sooo far to get in the car and drive all the way over the laurel canyon blvd twisty turny two cramped lanes to get down to hollywood, to see some dopey rock band called the Weirdos play there on a worknight. hey, what's on TV after the Laverne and Shirley lame rerun episode tonight?"

    all that plus BUZZING THE AFROHAIR OFF not in order to join the 100 "hollywood punks" who'd already done it in april 1977 long before mike genius boy KiSS ARMY76 TRIBUNAL COURT assistant had even arrived (at the very end of May) -- but instead to score a long career as an ACCOUNTANT -- scrapping the ultra-Detroit MI '71 drum roadie look, to make big $$ bucks $$ right into the next century as an ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT MANAGER (urban hospital sector, it turned out.

    so's to finish up hating on that annoying 1st Ramones 12" thing, and set the $$ machine $$ in motion for entire decades(two plus one year at at least,totaling an exact full time 21 holiday seasons and end-year CPA firm audit seasons. indeed totaling a big total 21, just like the next century's future incoming "2nd Gen kpop's launch pad explosion of 2007/08/09" with its gg all time-ultimate SUPERstAR giants of the "distaffs and not guys, other vocal groups gender side," 2009-2015's 2NE1. Minzy, Dara, their rapper CL, and Park Bom. 2nd Gen kpop's gg own (female) BEATLES level, huger charisma level than even Ritchie rocking solos in 1973 packing out kansas city ARROWHEAD FOOTBALL STADIUM. sure, 2NE1's same-agency successor Blackpink have pocketed(banked, taken home and conscieniously saved up)$32million between them already (by one year ago, that is). but Jisso sure isn't Dara, Rose sure isn't Dara, Jenny (the "kiwi," from NZ/australia) hella isn't even Park Bom,2NE1's later "plastic surgery zombie face visual), fuck ten ducks with david peel's second album, and rapper/lead dancer Lisa (a THAI) sure the fuck isn't CL. hell, man,punch up his (mike metal guysie's RYM Rate Your Music site user page,linked next below

  4. (cont.,still typed while watching a full 2-hour laenight rerun of of sunday night's (avoided here) crapped out Warriors game/loss (Curry was out, sick)
    SO sure, just ring his public Grand Funk Hotline house landline that's listed in this user-page's "about" section info, and i'm sure he can talk a couple hours about the relative choreography video and stage skills of any ten to twenty six 2nd Gen kor gg's 2014-ongoing current epoch) (if not any lengthy discussion of Blackpink vs TWiCE, commercially or otherwise. that's an endless stones vs the beatles black hole, kids, endless beyond Tom Terrific the Solar Wonderdog's magic infinity tunnel.

    (re the other sex, kpop "boy groups" since huuuger than huge, 2nd Gen era-starters Big Bang in 2006 right? have never musically. not one note of it ever made any sense to me or anyone i know, on any traditional songs/melody lines / BEATS / or ever dance-floor quality criteria, unlike the other sides (where i live, fan wise) HUNDRED of collectively super-eclectic anything-sub-variant or style from the "giant big tent" of kpop can be tried once.

    although yes, the indecipherable "boy group" does instead (several of them besides the incomprehensibly huge #1 group) pull full hockey arena or 3k-7k side "large audiorium" turnouts in america / canada / europe / ALL OVER SOUTH AMERICA,that "wtf is this" 'boy group' sound of young korea/thai/asia that BTS has packed out the hundred-thousand-head turnouts of the Rose Bowl and Wembley Stadium with.

    so VOM's "beats that pounded (sometimes)" got laid down by an super-upwardly-mobile pro ACCOUNTANT. who kept hating on that 1st Ramones
    while he did. now that is punk as fuck, man, punk as fuck. fuck the "Masque", we've got TVs IN THE VALLEY! and baseball cards, pool halls, and a comic book store right across the street from the Valley hospital workplace. fuck hollywood, i'm gonna move up to Frisco someday, man! (or least oakland-ish, actually).

    this all not far from the 3-bedroom 12129 Kittridge St "guys in bands, 3 bdr housing compound plus seeerious sized practice space (that mooks in Reseda would've used as a living room, pfffffsht)this magic "hous"(e) right around the corner from the epicenter of all LA, i mena the Valley -- i.e. the INTERSECTION OF THE NONEXISTENT ROCK STARS, i.e. Victory/Coldwater Canyon Blvd and its overhead stoptlight. dave (roeder/Tremors) / Harlan (tremors, again) / mike (and VOM praciting a half dozen times in the same living room in front of/beside the real "gigging house band"'s gear. good lord man, meltzer and VOM turning on dave's (roeder, again) practice PA! man the the front doors and lock up the cows. yep and this guy (the official Ramones-hater in the house) LAID DOWN THE BEATS for richard meltzer and VOM -- whose collective, unimaginable heights of skill at "playing instruments, sort of" enRAGED 1/8th to 1/3rd of the "hollywood innest-crowd of the in-crowd" in march at the whiskey a go go DiCKiES / Vom, two-nights four-sets total just coming down the pike just weeks/days/seconds away in March (1978).

  5. (pt 3 of "i'm watchig NBA/Warrriors while i do this, who's got time to guess the TOTAL pages in progress-publishing. like this |#3 of (4? 5? 6 or 16?) it's all posted and gone, any minute now)

    so Budget Rent A Car to thread! Harlan! Loren! your bands both want you to call home before leaving loren's north hollywood BRaCar lot's office!
    sure whatever dude, but hell yeah, an open public landphone # for Grand Funk 1970 fans that never really liked led zeppelin in the first place.
    FIRE (#1/kor,2009). and fuckk yeah also, that 2NE1 debut first single/MV. different (in the details of the motor, the bumper stickers, and the wardrobe look) from the Feb 1963 BeATLeS, but just as raw as fuck (as in, this blows the opposite wall down, before the song is even half over) and just as holy shit this was aMAZing, as worldwide "gigantic musical genre explosion"s go

    i am puzzled still (since the Twice JYP-agency's world behemoth godzilla the TwiCE sters finally "gave up the every-other-hit is the heinous AEGYO vibe crap, and overnight finally grew the fuck up" with the Bill Building '62 classic-HOF'er (the tune, ditto the production, the great MV, everything) "Fancy You" followed by
    next hits Special, and More and More, and I Can't Stop Me, then whatever the next one will be next week,then the week after that and etc, ongoing forever since summer 2014 apparently, their 26? 27? 28? consecutive hit songs (counting the JPN-market-only).

    i still need to beat the fuck out of lametard Tom Wermin for what he did to my kid Idiot Numbskull Ted te year after the Stranglehold kickass s/t lp, but all great things can wait a few more weeks i guess.

    so fuck ted, tom, and led zeppeln both, fuckem fuckem fuckem.

  6. (and still counting and cont.,
    whether this is page #4 or #42 or #14.6(b) that's cut/pasted right out of the old Rev Nob Punk Rock Stage Rules and Fines booklet)...
    I DON'T CARE (the next single and #1/kor,2009) (2NE1)
    and this TOTALLY PERFECT GIRL GROUP POP SONG and production - i do i do i do love the actual FACT that Brill Building genius/great (songwriting) never disappeared -- it just totally moved itself (to find and team up with each next-era's flood of great writers/creators/producers) across the whole world to different continents (twice and counting, as of this date 2/22/2021).

    (a) duh, Sweden duh! (the BIGGEST selling group of the 70's in total worldwide. ABBA of course. now there's a entire ten years' span, almost) (and later Roxette pretty majorly in europe's 90's and for longe in home scandanavia) moving the "pop music songwritng, great hit tunes of easily definable impotant eras" timeline right up to the TOTALLY INSANE AND INSANELY GREAT "pop history's epochal pinnacle, commercially," the 1998 1999 2000 2001, first Teenpop Fucking Mania era which stretches out for a full half-decade if you count the spice girls'/Wannabe a year
    earlier (than the BSBs' breakout, with max martin right there as hit tunesmith / producer/ everything, basically. the loong overdue first hit, to crack america (quit playing games with my heart) -- andhell yeah, WANNABE and the Spice Girl's whole paradigm re "ha,who needs to actual be able to dance? this is pretty good modern pop/dance music for kids! and indeed, just wobbling around a bit without falling over, was as a spice girls Shoreline Arena outdoor-"sped" gig had to get (theirs, on the 1998's tour)

    and MMMMMbop by Hanson was definitely the second giant dynamite stick along with Wannabe/1st SGirls album. in order to kill (at radio, and beyond) lame. f'n. alterna-rock. crap tunes and crap bands, stone dead forever.

    (1998 onwards, after whenever Deniz Tez died young, Cheiron Studio stockholm led by HOF hit song king Max Martin was of course a world-famous (to its teenpop or pop music superfans) one-in-one-place, modern Motown. with its 10-entire-heads (persons) totaling the whole creative crew there, ie.the whole writer-producer-engineer-musician staff, an entire Motown 1962 type setup (counting how many recording / producing / engineering / and PLAYIN THE MUSIC functions, those ten songwriters of Cheiron could do collectively)just on Cheiron's own)

  7. uh arrrrrrrgh. (the way that this site -- truncates way too early, viz a viz any long finished, edited and ready to cut/paste (LONG message) sitting over in a Wordpad screen)...and it winds up needing 4,5,6 (in this case if i'd ever finished grappling wiht it) --i.e. HOW MANY LINES will go through? whittling it down aka "Section 1 of many" bleeeeeegbh.

    i got 3 sections (out of probably 6 total, size-wise in the word pad) of the "long essay" moved over to here. but i'm only seeing one of them (accepted and printed)...jeeeesuz kick me in the ass twice now. (there WAS a point wrapped up in the last section of the 3 (size wise) that i ran out of time to grapple with. (counting how many lines on your wordpad cue that's got 100's obviously, actually more like 1,000) (saved). prob took dunno, 1 hour of typing/editing while i was listening/watching/listening to a basketball game that wasn't the GSW local dynasty crew the Warriors. (oh -- looking for a second at the only section that went through) i had punched in #1, and #2 (after whittling whittling whittling the input screen size down to what it would accept), and then a #3. BUT THE VERTICAL CUE shows only "#3 section" (and not a #1 section, then #2, then #3) jeesuz christ almighty what a fucking waste of an hour or two (composing and writing). it must've been a 60-year overview of "Brill Building level great pop songwriting" and its migration path around the world since 1960. NYC to (70's/80'sAND the 90's) sweden, and since 2007 ALL the way around the world again..right you got it (100's of the best pop or pop/dance songs/writing of the last 15 years, save for the Fame/Fame Monster classic 2lp and 1st Ke$ha duh obviously, and (the same year) Femme Fatale (the last of the 3-album "triology" blackout, circle and femmefatale by you know whosiz). well the long long Wordpad is intact so fuckit whatever.

    one of the groups i would have namedropped (viz the king of that style as writer/musician-one-man-recording-studio-band/PRODUCER duh / engineer (Teddy Park duh) (since 2NE1 blew up in a nanosecond in 2009 with the first of a couple dozen big hits)...yep (the 2016 nugus what started with Boombayah)... are right now as i speak have FAR outflanked both Taylor Swift and BTS (the two previous "these acts rule the pop music world, live and on recordings) (sitting around 42m or 44m Youtube "subscribers" that millions, kids. forty million youtube subs) anyway B/P is at 57m and heading through the sky, lord almighty. T/S and B/S a whole 25% down from that. that's insane. but those great (in every which way, visually and musically) BLaCKPiNK arena stage extravaganzas must be a good chunk of the driving force that has catapulted them far over the previous "insanely popular" (both taylor and BTS's stadium-level in Rose Bowl, Wembley UK etc, for the latter). and THEM THERE GREAT GODZILLA SIZE GIANT HITS ARE TEDDY PARK SONGS (that he one-man-everything'd, as referenced above).

  8. . << Ahhhhhh, maybe try decaf? >>

    hahahahahah i type 75wpm in my sleep with one eye on the football/TV in progress twenty feet away. NoRB ReV is my spirit that is one punkrock antler-helmet wearing guy who can type like hella.

    duly noted: it the magazine two-plus years behind the times as usual (cannot vouch for movies, but in the world of music they got on the Eagles/FleetwoodMac clueless train forty five-plus years ago and never jumped off to make a turnaround), our Lucky grocery store's good-sized magazine racks/section has informed me (yesterday) that (following McDonald's promo of this month)

    Rollin' bowling Stone has got SEVEN different (BTS covers. not illogically, since it's a 7 head group and all of them are like, taylor swift level superstars, granted. such as that filling Wembley (two nights straight) and the Rose Bowl (multiple nights) counts as "yeah that's kinda popular, isn't it" // BUT the other 8 or 9 or 10 pages (now that RS has discovered kpop ten years too late. seriously) are just blind man throwing darts in a bowling alley (and no coherent overview...ha "so 1982 bla bla...and then nirvana happened!" redux) -- just one-pagers on seven randomly chosen "new (or recent) acts" and which is beyond mega clueless (uh i already said 'random'), and plus -- (as in muahahah wtf) ok, the ITZY page. duh! a really good debut (single), followed by three GREAT (near-classic) (noisy electropop) (singles. each of the four with a 6 song ep), but, uh oh -- just last week -- their 5th single BLOWS. it's just crap (and intentionally in a different sound/style than the prior first four...i mean, wtf, JYP?). AND (RS twelve years too late for real), for TWO YEARS and change and counting (since 2019 started) there is HUGE discontent (all over the youtube MVs' endless comment threads) (my hand is waving in the air too), by anyone who loved lots of 2nd Gen kpop (nugus, aka new groups that debuted in 2007-2013), plus the best 3rd Gen (notably the rookies from 2014-2016, which includes of course the Big 4 OG GG (3rd Gen) duh, BLaCKPiNK, TWiCE, and the distant 3rd and 4th positions held forever by Red Velvet and Mamamoo. and...right now however, the state of gg kpop is a lot like the NY Yankees of 1962 or 1963. the rot has set in, the foundation is for shit (aka 1963 WS definitely a good example. NYY got their WS ass swept! just clocked into the street and run over by a dump truck). and the same can be held to be of 95%-plus of the 30+ (as usual) new (female) rookie groups of 2019, 2020, and now almost 5/12ths into 2021. collectively which have been a giant WTF. (Itzy was easily the best of the lot). ("is Blackpink's arena show still worth seeing?" oh fuck yes. they didn't draw 50,000 heads ((in total, on 3 nights spanning the two fridays and a weekday) at Coachella/LAForum back in pre-covid spring 2019)) for no whatever reasons of unknown origin.

    Q: What do Nazi Germany and TWiCe have in common?
    A: Both had a failed attempt at world domination.

    but in reverse for the former all-time popular aegyo shills (two years ago, 56% -- 56% of all kor gg domestic Kor sales/all formats, were by TWiCe... and they never WENT to europe!?! to this day. which is just bizarre. (they can pre-sell 12,000 seats in LA and NJ/NYC, but big whoop. red velvet's first ever US gig (a month before blackpink/roiled Coachella/LA/Coachella) pre-sold 7,000/for 2 nights (in burbank CA) and prob could have topped 10,000+ if they'd known ahead to book 3 nights straight, not 2 -- AND whose (red velvet) way-behind in a forever-3rd has never been within a million miles of TWiCe'S (all formats) worldwide sales. ehhhhhhh congrats rolling stone on being (musically) stuipid 4ever ever since the hated Hotel California dorks the kings of lame music was the poster chillen for the musical hippies of america yay i mean boooo.