Text by Julia Masi / FFanzeen fanzine, 1983
Introduction © Robert Barry Francos / FFanzeen, 2015
Images from the Internet
Introduction © Robert Barry Francos / FFanzeen, 2015
Images from the Internet
This interview was originally printed in FFanzeen, issue #11, dated 1983. It was conducted
and written by our Managing Editor, Julia Masi.
Perhaps Divine (d. 1988) is where my respect
for Drag Queens began. Though, to be fair, calling Divine a drag queen is not
inclusive enough, as she was so much larger than that (pun not intended),
including having some hit recordings and being a media darling. Over the years, there have been a number of
books about Divine (including one by his mother), a documentary, and even
spoofs.
What
I find interesting, in McLuhan-esque rear view mirror thinking is that throughout
the article below, Divine is referred to as “him.” To be fair, even John Waters
uses the male pronoun in discussing Divine to this day. For myself, I have
always called Divine “her” and his male counterpart, Harris Glenn Milstead as “he,”
as seems to be the current way to differentiate between the actor and the “persona.”
I never met Divine, but did once serve ice cream to Harris in the very hot
summer of 1976 while working at a long-gone West Village Baskin-Robbins on 7
Ave South and Grove St. (there is a restaurant there now). A friend who also worked there, at another time after I
left, got his autograph (as Divine) and gave it to me. Yes, I still have it. – RBF, 2015
Capturing
the title of “The Most Beautiful Woman in the World” is no easy feat,
especially if you happen to be a 300 lb. gentleman. But as the comic sex symbol
in most of John Waters’ satirical films, Divine was defined his own overstated
sense of drag chic that has been immortalized in a paper doll book, Simply Divine (St. Martin’s Press), and
helped him land a contract with O Records.
His three
singles, “Night of Love,” “Shoot Your Shot” and “Shake It Up” have provided Divine
with yet another way to win fans and influence critics. Virtually unheard on
American radio, Divine’s voice has been saturating the European airwaves for
the past year. His move into music began when record producer Bobby Orlando
started searching for new talent. “He was a fan,” recalls Divine, “and he
thought I had the charisma and stage presence to put a song across.” At first
Divine was reluctant. “I was told for so many years that I couldn’t sing, that
I started believing it.”
So he made
an agreement with Orlando that he would try his hand at recording, but if the
demos didn’t turn out to his linking, they’d just scrap them. First they recorded
“Night of Love,” which turned out better than they expected. It hit the European
charts quickly and stayed there for 22 weeks. Shortly afterward, “Shoot Your
Shot” was released to similar reception. Last Fall, Divine was asked to tour
Europe because he had a record in the Top Ten, when “Night of Love” suddenly
shot up to the No. 3 spot. His latest single, “Shake It Up,” went from nowhere
to No. 15 the first week it was released. “It was quite exciting. It was like
being the Beatles or Elton John. I couldn’t believe the popularity. They [the
live audiences] just went crazy.”
Back on Divine’s
home turf, Key West, Florida, he’s best known as a cult move star. His more
memorable roles in Pink Flamingos (1972),
and the first venture into odorama, Polyester
(1981), brought him a wider audience and his first taste of mass-appeal
stardom. It also helped cement a bond of loyalty with John Waters.
He called
Waters “a realist,” insisting that “he cannot cheat his audience. If something
is supposed to happen, it does. If it looks like something is going on in the
film, I can tell you it actually does. If someone is supposed to set themselves
on fire, then John has found some fool who will do it.
“He’s
interested in his career and he’s interested in my career, too. He’s interested
in Divine. I’m very lucky to have that. To have somebody that you can really
trust.” He feels that their mutual admiration comes across on the screen.
That’s one of the reasons the films are so successful. I can take his written
word and give it life. I know exactly what he wants without asking. I’d always
work for John. The only reason I wasn’t in Desperate
Living (1977),” he says almost apologetically, “is that I was doing a play [Women Behind Bars – RBF, 1983].” That play toured Europe and gave Divine his first
shot at something he’s always wanted, “to become an international star. I’d
wanted to go to Europe. I’d never been out of the States. And the films hadn’t
been released there until just recently. To this day, I never know whether I
made the right decision. Maybe I did the right thing. I’ll never know, but it
all worked out.”
He compares
his relationship with Waters to the old movie studios of the 1940s. “They made
your career. They got you work – they could ruin you, but they kept you
working.” He praises Waters because, “He actually created a star of sorts; in
my case out of a complete unknown without he the major backing of a major
studio, and without the money.
“They’re
very sophisticated films. Some of the new movies that are coming out look like
they were made by fools. I shouldn’t say that. I haven’t actually seen them,
but the ads and things are enough to keep me away. Of course, the ads for Polyester weren’t that good. But what
I’m trying to say is that John deserves more credit for his writing. John’s
writing is just so –! I can read [other people’s] scripts and not know whether
or not I’m supposed to laugh. I read his scripts and be hysterical.”
His favorite
role to date is Dawn Davenport in Female
Trouble (1974). “It was fun because it kept changing. It was her whole life
story, which allows for different looks and different costumers, which allows
for more fun. I’m not saying it was my best part. I was at my best in Polyester, because it was a completely
different kind of role for me. It was the exact opposite of glamour and
everything that the Divine character stands for.” Film critics also found this
to be his best role, and the first where they actually took notice of his
acting expertise. “I’ve always been typecast. They say, ‘Oh, well, here’s
Divine. All Divine can do is play fat women with big teased hair and tight
dresses.’”
Unlike most
leading “ladies” he does not mind being called sexy. “I try to be at times.
There are all sides to the character.” What he feels makes the character sexy
are “the size, the volume, the attitude. You’ve’ got to think sexy to be sexy.
To do it, you’ve got to be it. It’s easy to get into.” But the essence of
Divine’s sensuality is “the sense of humor. It’s not like,” he lets out a deep
animal-like pant, “a maniac who jumps on anything – a fencepost. The sexiest
thing about a woman is a sense of humor.
“I’m real, I
think. The character makes people laugh. There are no holds barred, says
whatever comes out of the mouth. Nonchalant. I think more people would like to
be like that.”
The matinee
goddess that Divine most admires id Elizabeth Taylor (d. 2011), who he has idolized since he was a child. “I met her at
the Roxy Roller Rink in New York City, at a party for her daughter. It was
about a year-and-a-half, or two years ago. I don’t know what she thought of me.
It was like looking in a mirror.”
Last Winter,
Hollywood excreted Tootsie (1982) and
began flirting with the ideas of transvestite heroes. More commercial film
scripts are called for actors to get dressed up, a trend that is very upsetting
to Divine. “They’re trying to ruin my business. He (Dustin Hoffman) didn’t wear
one pretty dress in the movie. With their budget!
“And now I
hear that John Travolta is dressing up like a girl [I’m not sure to what Divine is referring, but Travolta actually played
the Divine role in the musical remake of Hairspray in 2007 – RBF, 2015]. He can’t need the money that badly. Come on,
boys! I could understand the feminist movement and feminist consciousness, but
there’s no reason for our sex idols to dress up like girls.
“I honestly
find it shocking. I’m here and I could do it. Maybe I’m just jealous. It sounds
like sour grapes, doesn’t it? But nothing really happens in that movie (Tootsie). At least with a John Waters
film, for one-and-a half hours you can’t stop laughing. It’s action-packed.
That’s what movies are all about.
“I guess
Richard Burton will be dressing up next,” he muses. “I’ll have to play men’s
parts. I guess women will have to play men’s parts. I guess I’ll be out of
work.”
Unemployment
is hardly an immediate threat for Divine. After another brief tour of Europe
this Summer, he’ll begin recording an album [My
First Album – RBF, 2015]. And there’s
a new John Waters film in the planning stage (Hairspray, released in 1988
– RBF, 2015]. “I can’t tell you anything about that except it’s his best
one yet. That could start any time. I’m up for three other films, but you never
know. We’ll just have to wait and see.”
Bonus video (John Candy as Divine on SCTV):
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